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redfiona99I'm specifying because there are several other versions.
The Statement For The Prosecution:
This is actually a film I didn't want to put in this category, not because it is brilliant, but because it's the very best Punisher film we are going to get.
The problem is that there's a huge disconnect between what Punisher fanboys (and fanboy is used deliberately) think he is and what he actually is. Fortunately the film went with what he actually is, which is why it got such poor reviews because the fanboys were all 'wah, this is not our Frank Castle', and everyone else went, 'this is a bit overly bleak, no?'
Which is true. Because the Punisher has to be bleak.
The film is not perfect by any means. John Travolta is not quite right as Howard Saint (in keeping with the Vega family, imagine Michael Madsen instead and see how the film improves) and it *is* overly bleak, which I like but I can see it being off-putting.
The Punisher does a variety of unpleasant and cruel things, and the plot relies on some co-incidences, for instance, there isn't a single non-criminal, or even nice, member of the Saint family.
The Scene Itself:
First, some background. Saint's chief henchman suspects Frank Castle lives in a particular run down block of flats. Which he does. To try to get the details of his whereabouts (hidden behind a bookcase bleeding from a previous fight), Saint's henchmen tortures two of the other people who live in the flat. They don't break. The bad guys leave and Frank is retrieved from his hideyhole and everyone is patched up.
Frank is so confused by them not giving him up and the conversation ensues.
Once again, can't find it on YouTube so you'll have to deal with just the transcript.
Spacker Dave: [to Castle after being tortured] They tried to make me talk... I gave 'em nothing...
Frank Castle: You don't know me. You don't owe me anything. I've brought you nothing but trouble. Why were you ready to die for me?
Spacker Dave: Because you're one of us... you're family.
Why The Scene Is So Good:
The film-makers get that Frank is a lot grim-dark so Joan, Spacker Dave and Bumpo are blatantly added to the film to give us someone to empathise with.
The interesting thing is how non-idealised they are. Joan, played by Rebecca Romijn, is obviously stunningly pretty but life has beaten her down to the point where she has no fight left.
Spacker Dave and Bumpo are socially inept losers. Lord knows I love them but they are doofuses and they don't get any better.
Frank, whose already cynical outlook has gone into full-blown nihilism and revenge mode (understandably), was, in a scene cut from the cinema version because I don't know, producers are idiots, betrayed by a fellow DEA agent, someone who was supposed to have his back and uphold the law, while these guys, who owe him nothing, didn't give him away.
It's the nearest the film gets to a hope spot, because Frank knows that destroying Saint's life and killing him will not make him happy (and it doesn't. I do love that the film doesn't end with a one liner but with Frank carrying on his endless quest.) but he feels he needs to do it anyway. This, to my mind, is the scene where Frank switches from plan 'destroy Saint, kill self,' to plan 'destroy Saint, stop this happening to anyone else,' because that's what the Punisher's grail is, a world where bad things do not happen to people (see also, one of the things the fanboys do not get).
Thomas Jane, who I am deliberately singling out for praise, is the very best Frank Castle we are ever going to get. Because he gets Frank and manages to convey both the depths of Frank's despair, which is a blank unmovable thing, and who he was before.
But this is his best scene.
Because he has to do, in no particular order, despair (perpetual), guilt and self-loathing (for having brought this pain to innocent people and being unable to stop it), confusion (because bless him, Frank Castle does not understand why anyone would help another person for no reason anymore) and gratitude. And he hits them all and their combinations.
It's a quiet scene that packs a heck of a punch (much like the scene before it).
The Statement For The Prosecution:
This is actually a film I didn't want to put in this category, not because it is brilliant, but because it's the very best Punisher film we are going to get.
The problem is that there's a huge disconnect between what Punisher fanboys (and fanboy is used deliberately) think he is and what he actually is. Fortunately the film went with what he actually is, which is why it got such poor reviews because the fanboys were all 'wah, this is not our Frank Castle', and everyone else went, 'this is a bit overly bleak, no?'
Which is true. Because the Punisher has to be bleak.
The film is not perfect by any means. John Travolta is not quite right as Howard Saint (in keeping with the Vega family, imagine Michael Madsen instead and see how the film improves) and it *is* overly bleak, which I like but I can see it being off-putting.
The Punisher does a variety of unpleasant and cruel things, and the plot relies on some co-incidences, for instance, there isn't a single non-criminal, or even nice, member of the Saint family.
The Scene Itself:
First, some background. Saint's chief henchman suspects Frank Castle lives in a particular run down block of flats. Which he does. To try to get the details of his whereabouts (hidden behind a bookcase bleeding from a previous fight), Saint's henchmen tortures two of the other people who live in the flat. They don't break. The bad guys leave and Frank is retrieved from his hideyhole and everyone is patched up.
Frank is so confused by them not giving him up and the conversation ensues.
Once again, can't find it on YouTube so you'll have to deal with just the transcript.
Spacker Dave: [to Castle after being tortured] They tried to make me talk... I gave 'em nothing...
Frank Castle: You don't know me. You don't owe me anything. I've brought you nothing but trouble. Why were you ready to die for me?
Spacker Dave: Because you're one of us... you're family.
Why The Scene Is So Good:
The film-makers get that Frank is a lot grim-dark so Joan, Spacker Dave and Bumpo are blatantly added to the film to give us someone to empathise with.
The interesting thing is how non-idealised they are. Joan, played by Rebecca Romijn, is obviously stunningly pretty but life has beaten her down to the point where she has no fight left.
Spacker Dave and Bumpo are socially inept losers. Lord knows I love them but they are doofuses and they don't get any better.
Frank, whose already cynical outlook has gone into full-blown nihilism and revenge mode (understandably), was, in a scene cut from the cinema version because I don't know, producers are idiots, betrayed by a fellow DEA agent, someone who was supposed to have his back and uphold the law, while these guys, who owe him nothing, didn't give him away.
It's the nearest the film gets to a hope spot, because Frank knows that destroying Saint's life and killing him will not make him happy (and it doesn't. I do love that the film doesn't end with a one liner but with Frank carrying on his endless quest.) but he feels he needs to do it anyway. This, to my mind, is the scene where Frank switches from plan 'destroy Saint, kill self,' to plan 'destroy Saint, stop this happening to anyone else,' because that's what the Punisher's grail is, a world where bad things do not happen to people (see also, one of the things the fanboys do not get).
Thomas Jane, who I am deliberately singling out for praise, is the very best Frank Castle we are ever going to get. Because he gets Frank and manages to convey both the depths of Frank's despair, which is a blank unmovable thing, and who he was before.
But this is his best scene.
Because he has to do, in no particular order, despair (perpetual), guilt and self-loathing (for having brought this pain to innocent people and being unable to stop it), confusion (because bless him, Frank Castle does not understand why anyone would help another person for no reason anymore) and gratitude. And he hits them all and their combinations.
It's a quiet scene that packs a heck of a punch (much like the scene before it).
